Innovating Inclusion

Lucy Edwards on Entrepreneurship, Representation, and Why Blind Barbie Matters!

• Fox Family Foundation - InVisions • Season 1 • Episode 3

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The hosts talk to Blind, Not Broken author, Lucy Edwards, a UK based, RTS award-winning presenter, journalist, content creator, speaker, entrepreneur and disability activist. 

After losing her sight at 17 due to Incontinentia Pigmenti, Lucy committed to sharing her experiences and raising awareness about disability. 

Her engaging personality and open commentary have garnered her a social media following of over 2.8 million, with her content being viewed over one billion times. Lucy's influence makes her a leading voice in the global diversity, equity, and inclusion space.


WEBSITE: https://www.lucyedwards.com/

COMPANY: etia

LINKS

MENTIONS: Grace Beverley


HOSTS: Katie Corbett & Angie Castro

C0-PRODUCER: Angie Castro

PRODUCER: Akira Nakano

www.innovatinginclusion.org


STEVEN McCOY

Hello and welcome to Innovating Inclusion, where we are exploring inclusivity, disability awareness, universal design and entrepreneurship. I'm Steven McCoy, and today my co-hosts pilot the ship… Writer and entrepreneur herself, Katie Corbett!!


KATIE CORBETT

Hey, Steven. Hey everybody. I'm super excited for today's convo.


STEVEN

And the host of the podcast, This Is What Blind Looks Like, Angie Castro. 


ANGIE CASTRO

Today we had the privilege of talking to journalist, influencer, product ambassador, entrepreneur and makeup designer, Lucy Edwards. 


KATIE

Angie, you've been following Lucy for forever, right? 


ANGIE

Yes, I have, but I'm sure I'm not the only one. 


STEVEN

Did you guys seriously keep her on after the interview for makeup tips?


KATIE

What wasn't recorded didn't happen. Enjoy today's amazing episode. 

Lucy, thank you so much for taking the time to be on the show with us today. We really appreciate it. 


LUCY EDWARDS

Oh, thank you for having me. 


ANGIE

I've followed you for so long. I wanna say maybe like 2014, 2015? 


LUCY 

Oh, that's amazing. 


ANGIE

Yeah, I've loved your content for a long time. I also love makeup and fashion, and I've been doing my makeup non-visually for like 10 years.


LUCY

Oh, amazing. 


ANGIE

So thanks to all you blind fashion girlies. So right now, I'm al naturale. I'm not in any makeup at all, and it's kind of cold and gloomy here, so…

 

LUCY

Honestly, that's so, so cool to hear and I'm just so happy that I can be on here and just chatting to you guys today.

It does help a gloomy day, doesn't it? To just have a chin whack?

 

KATIE

Absolutely. I remember when I was 13, my sister taught me how to do my makeup. I was just like, I wanna learn how to do this, and I've always been totally blind. So non-visually has always been the way that I've done my makeup. How did you learn to do your makeup non-visually?

Did you have a friend or sister or someone who kind of took you under her wing or…

 

LUCY

Yeah. 


KATIE

How did that go? 


LUCY

So a lot like you, my love, my sister, she is 15 months younger than me. She's super cute. But she is also completely sighted, and we've both loved makeup. To be honest, she loved it earlier than me, in a way, because she loved like the drag queens… and she started to kind of introduce me into this world of “baking with powder” and like really quiet graphic liner and stuff, and I just thought it was super cool when I could see. And then I lost my eyesight when I was 17, and I would kind of do just more minimal makeup. I had obviously like the teenage mistakes where I'd have my foundation a bit… (laughs)...  Just the wrong color for my skin tone and stuff like that, which we all do no matter what age, really. But yeah, no, my sister, when I lost my vision, she audio described hours and upon hours upon hours of makeup tutorials that otherwise would've been inaccessible to me. And I know that that is a very, very privileged position to come from and to be in, because I have her. But it is just me and her because she's my only sister, and I'm hers and we're just so close. And she also is autistic which I adore because she just sees the world so clearly, and I dunno, color and vibrancy and all of that. It's just her audio descriptions are just everything. You know, she's grown up with me being visually impaired, losing the sight of my one eye at 11 and left eye at 17. So she's very attuned into describing things. So yeah, she's, she's amazing.

 

ANGIE

So I started playing with makeup in my early twenties. And then my cousin helped me learn how to do it. And then obviously people at the Sephora counters and Ulta and stuff like that. And then when I watched videos with you and Molly and Fashioneyesta, you know, Emily Davidson, and I started watching all these blind girlies on YouTube doing their makeup. I'm like, if they can do it, I can learn too. And I have some vision, but I've felt that learning how to apply makeup non-visually is better because I don't have to use my vision and I don't have to strain my eye trying to see where my crease is…  where to fill in my eyebrow or anything like that.


LUCY

Yeah. That's super cool. This is the thing that we just can do it just as well as people who are sighted. And that's super cool that you learn on. The thing is that I think these days, the Sephora counter and stuff, it's just getting better and better to go and talk to someone. People are so friendly.


ANGIE

Oh yeah, they're lovely. I could just walk in there and I could just tell 'em, okay, I wanna try, for example, the Rare Beauty foundation and concealer, would you mind color matching me, please? And they do. So you know, they're great. My guide dog. I taught him how to find Sephora. So he'd be like, okay, we'll go. You know?


KATIE

Oh, that's great. 


ANGIE

He knows what I love. It's funny.

 

LUCY

Amazing, gosh. 


KATIE

Was there a time or a situation that you decided, okay, I'm gonna make this my career? What was it like for you getting into this field that most people assume is inaccessible?


LUCY

Yeah., Initially, I don't know. I didn't really know that it could be a thing for one to just do my makeup and feel okay with it, 'cause I think the stereotype. I dunno if you guys agree, but it’s very like “blindness is frumpy” or “blindness is X or Y or Z? because we weren't represented in the media in the correct way. So I think doing it as a young girl, I remember just feeling a bit isolated and just really happy that I could finally just talk about all the things that I loved and that what made me, Lucy. You know, when I lost my eyesight, I felt like I lost so much of myself, and I tried to analyze why, and I think that was just because the world saw me so differently and I just couldn't understand it. I couldn't put kind of both sides of the coin together, living in a sighted body and just being just me and then suddenly people seeing me so differently. That didn't make sense to me at all.

So I think these outward expressions that that's I found my makeup was the thing that made me just take time for myself every single day when I felt really low. I was on really strong antidepressants. And my guide dog Olga, at the time, who is at my feet, she's retired now, and she gave me the kind of motivation to get out the front door. And when I was 18, and. I remember, she gave me a routine, and I was like, well, the first thing that needs to go into this routine is me… just learning how to live my life again through makeup. And I just didn't wanna face the fact that having a mirror was the be all and end all, because it's just completely not. It's like, how can I control my appearance and feel great about myself and still feel like me? So that's how it kind of started. And then, yeah, as I say, there was no one out there that I felt very connected to, and I didn't have any blind people in my life that were independent. So I wanted to find a community online, and that's kind of how it started. And now we're here. Yeah. 


ANGIE

Yeah. No, that's really important to find, making these that can help you just grow as a person and help you get out of your shell and help you become who you are. So with that being said, how would you define beauty? Everybody defines beauty in their own ways. So how do you define beauty?


LUCY

Love that. I actually applied for some funding a couple of months back now, and I answered this very question through the application process, but via a video that I also submitted alongside my application. And they said, “What does beauty mean to you?” I made the video, and at the start it says, “Beauty means getting mascara all over your face.” And it's kind of a bit of a jovial take in that, like you can see me literally just smearing. It's very intentional. 


ANGIE

I saw that on Instagram and I loved it so much. 


LUCY

Thank you so much. Yeah, I know. I, it kind of starts like that, and it's quite shocking and then I go into actually what beauty means and what it should mean. Because notoriously beauty has meant inaccessibility to me. So I think redefining how I saw beauty and how I saw myself was such a massive part of my rehabilitation, as I said. And I think to me it means truly being your inner self…  thriving and having accessible products with innovative designs, universal design principles, like all of that jazz, like designing for everybody… really at the ethos of the product and understanding that the world around me needed to be fixed, not me as an individual.


ANGIE

Right. 


LUCY

I thought for so long that I was a burden and all of these different words, and you know, when I pushed that away and thought beauty doesn't have to mean what you see. It's about the different types of vision that you can envisage for your life and how you feel and, um… Amazingly, it was so, so cool 'cause I got the funding, and now I'm on the journey to launch my make it brand. It's gonna be a good long time, but that's what beauty truly means to me. 


ANGIE

That is so exciting, Lucy. I cannot wait for that to come out and to try out the product, I'm gonna be all over that once you release that, 


KATIE

And this is kind of perfect too because our podcast is promoting a contest where young people, ages 14 to 24 are gonna be working on creating innovative ideas using universal design. So I'm just wondering now that you've jumped into more of an entrepreneurial space as you're developing your makeup line, what advice do you have for young entrepreneurs who are interested in universal design and being more inclusive?


LUCY

Love this. And as soon as I got the email, well my manager forwarded me the email for you guys. I was like, yes, I need to talk to them. They sound amazing. And what you're doing is super cool. So thank you for inviting me. And I think if you are a young person, and you're listening to this right now, it's hard. I remember feeling so Isolated and not myself back then, and understanding that in my early twenties, I started to be like, well, actually this blind thing is actually all right, and it's gonna be okay. Understanding that universal design at the moment is definitely in everybody's minds. Brands are striving, and I'm getting more and more jobs and more and more people come to me and say, how do we make inclusive packaging? How do we design for everybody? And if I'm doing a modeling contract for a job that I'm doing on social media, usually it does have a consulting element on this. And I say that to you to give you encouragement, really… It is really a space that is growing and the diversity, equity, inclusion consciousness is definitely in everybody's minds.

So it's a super cool competition, and what you've got going on here, it sounds amazing. And I think if you have an innovative idea, it's about writing it down, understanding the… where is the gap. What does that look like for you? And what problem are you solving? It's always the top line. You know that question. What is the problem? If it's a problem that you are having, most likely somebody is having it too. Is it a universal problem? And how can you make current products that you are holding in your hands accessible to you or accessible to everybody? Because I don't just think about blindness and my disability, although I can speak to that and have a lived experience to that. I am thinking about all different disabilities. So I guess it's like thinking from that standpoint. 

But also I really admire an entrepreneur in the UK called Grace Beverley, and she has a course out right now that you can actually download. I really admire her shorts that she does on business and entrepreneurship, and she has lots of different exercises that you can do to clarify where you want to go and what space and why you are doing it. And I think it's the “your why” is so important. I always thought that for my personal brand, and now I'm thinking about it for etia, which is my makeup brand, what is your why? And my why, especially for Lucy Edwards, and how I envisage things, is I get up every morning because I want to make the lives of disabled people, especially all those little Lucy’s out there who didn't feel represented, who felt sick, who didn't feel like themselves, feel included finally. And I think if that drives you, you'll go a long way. 


ANGIE

Was there a time or a situation that made you want to go into inclusive design or accessibility within the beauty industry? 


LUCY

Yeah, absolutely. So I think delving deeper, it would just be trial and error. I have tried, at this point, thousands of products that are completely or in part accessible or inaccessible or accidentally accessible, all of the above. And it's been trial and error. Understanding how through labeling all of these different products,how I would get better application from them or better payoff or understand what I'm doing a lot more. And I think through doing that, I'm nearly having my twelve year anniversary of going blind in March next year, and I'm so privileged to say that I have trialed all these products. But I don't want somebody else to have to go through what I've been through because I've had my sister there literally looking at, staring at my face.

She's probably…  she always laughs. She's like, “I know your face probably better than mine somewhat Lucy. (laughing) 'cause the, the amount of times I've stared at things.” So yeah, she makes me giggle. 

Yeah, I think it's that one and desire to do that. And also notoriously, the beauty community isn't representative, but also it does drive a lot of trends. And I think also my collaboration with Pantene when I was an ambassador for them, that kind of steered the marketing industry into not just having tokenistic representation when I was on tour of their adverts. I consulted behind the scenes with Procter and Gamble to understand how we can actually make the packaging more accessible for my community and our community. And I just think, yeah, it's just brilliant. It's a passion product of mine. Definitely. I'm just so lucky. 


KATIE

I love that. 


ANGIE

What aspects of your career do you find rewarding? 


LUCY

Oh, such a good question. When I became the ambassador of Blind Barbie, and I got a video of a little girl being given a Blind Barbie by her mama, and she was just the most excited little girl on the planet.

Oh, it made me cry now. But yeah, it's just, it's just, honestly, that is why. Sorry. I don't know. It chokes me up even now. 


KATIE

Don't ruin your makeup! 


LUCY

Definitely. Oh, oh gosh. That is, that is what gets me out of bed. Like that is all that matters. You know, you can think about, I am the face of adverts… I'm a model… I'm an author… all of these things.

I love that. I've done that and that success is just totally amazing. I am proud of that, and I'm proud of my achievements. But truly why I get up and my value system, what is the core of me is… I felt so ill, and so low, and so not like myself when I was 17, and I just really don't want anyone else to go through that. So hearing that gorgeous little girl be so excited that finally there is a blind Barbie just means that finally we have acceptance that I had never known when I was her age, and she doesn't have to grow up feeling scared about becoming blind. And that is why I will just continue doing what I do, even though there's negatives and positives to every job. And there was a point where there was parts of my journey online where I was, “Oh. Is this for me?” But of course it is that, and as soon as you align back to your values and understand why you started things in the first place. Yeah. That's why I do what I do. 


KATIE

I love that 


ANGIE 

I have blind Barbie sitting in my studio actually, and when Blind Barbie came out, I was like, “Finally, this is it. We've been waiting for a blind Barbie.”


KATIE 

My sister and I, when we played Barbies, we used to use pencils so the Barbie would have a cane. She could have a pencil on. So it's really great that we don't have to do that anymore. (laughs)


ANGIE

You know, I was so happy. I was so overjoyed. I'm like, oh my God.

Now blind little girls all over the world are gonna be able to be like, there's a doll that looks like me. 


KATIE

Yeah.


LUCY

Yeah. 


KATIE

Yeah. 


ANGIE

I'm trying, I used to cry, but it's, it's just a breakthrough, you know what I mean? I just feel like now in this day and age, disability is being understood. Disability is being talked about. The younger generations have so much to access now within their reach than when we were kids, when we were growing up. I love that now it's easier for people to become educated and understand disability. 


LUCY

Absolutely. 


KATIE

Yeah, definitely. What advice do you have for people as they're building their team?


LUCY

Absolutely. So I'll take you back. I just started uploading with lots of “um’s” that first edit. I think me and Ollie edited out nearly 30 “um’s” in my first video. So it's still up and he managed to, but it's very choppy. So I guess the first thing to say is just post it. And I definitely went it alone without a team for a good 17, 18, 19, 20, probably like four, maybe more like five years, and my YouTube channel was my portfolio. So I just kept uploading. These days, Final Cut Pro is so super accessible, and TikTok’s getting there, although it's still, yeah, it's still a bit ropey. And I think the point of access for us with technology at our fingertips, it's about technology and tools, and I think it's about getting started.

And the reason that this relates to a team is because I then found a team after that. I managed to get an apprenticeship through using my YouTube as a portfolio. And then I worked at the BBC as a traditional broadcaster for a good, I wanna say like a full-time, a good year. And then I actually moved on from the apprenticeship myself because YouTube was starting to take off and I went freelance at Radio Forum.

kind of became more in front of the camera. 

But what I would say is the biggest bit of advice back then is, I got so many “no’s”. So many of my ideas, I would email, and they wouldn't get commissioned. And I would say, you could send a hundred emails and you're lucky if one gets read back then. And I just kept going. And going, and going, going. I was like a boomerang. And, I remember in the pandemic, we all hate that word, but my BBC Radio Four work waned a little bit as every freelancer had a bit more so, and I was just like, TikTok’s blowing up. I'm just gonna do three videos a day. Everyone thought I was mad and bless Ollie. He always goes on my hair brain schemes. And then suddenly, from August to December we had a million followers. Wow. I suddenly was getting, you know, we were reaching out to management and because of our use case and our videos and, and you know, I was, I was sending emails and, “Hi, do you like my videos?

This is a video that I've done.” And then you've got some content to kind of put at the start of your email. Then we're away. We've got a team. So I think it was a lot of learning It was a lot of persistence. And I guess also what's really important is to get a coach. I think if I could look back at my younger self just starting social media, I would really try and get just someone in the media field to try and guide you. Reach out, ask for coffees, but understand like you are a valuable asset. Even though you haven't necessarily got the experience under your belt, what do you have that you can give to somebody? Now I'm very lucky that I can delegate those tasks, but I really didn't for five years. And it's about grounding yourself in like doing everything, every part.


If you love this craft, be the editor, be the uploader, be the producer. Like what do you love about it? Understand the core values of what you   love about that, and then you can go into it. I just adore my team. I've worked hard to get my team. People brand you as an overnight success, and usually you've got 10 years behind you…


KATIE

Mm-hmm.


LUCY

…of going full on like, ah… So yeah, again, I am obviously very, very lucky to be in the position that I'm in and I'm, I would never take that for granted. Ever, ever, ever. 


KATIE

Beautiful.

 

ANGIE

So can you tell us, what do you do to keep up with the trends when it comes to technology that's out there now? 


LUCY

It kind of comes back to my journalist training in that I was always, I always read the news every single day. But I have curated, actually Google Trends messages me every single day at 4:00 PM, that's what I've set it to. On all these different tags that I've kind of put into my algorithm. So it tracks all different things. I guess one thing would be long white canes. It depends. Like sometimes it comes up with nothing at 4:00 PM, Monday to Friday and I have to delete it. But other times it does and it's really cool. I can just track what's going on in the space. And I think also following people on my timeline, so I know, for instance, the different technology. I follow BBC Click, which is actually is the technology program on the BBC which I've done some pieces for, but they always do a show every December to show the new technologies and tools. I also go on different forums, but also what I was taught to do at the BBC is very much like if you are searching something, search the opposite, all of the time. So for me, I don't just follow the political persuasion that I agree with or I'm more aligned to. I follow everything, and I try and be as neutral as possible to try and get into all different algorithms, and I think that's what has really served me over the years. 


Also, visually, I've obviously got a team now. I didn't have that at the start and kind of went on Trends and Google Trends and different things and waves like that do also get my team to do a deep dive nowadays on like more visual memes and stuff. But again, that's not necessarily mandatory. And also you can ask ChatGPT now what's like visually popping off and stuff. Yeah. I hope that's helpful. That's a bit of stuff. 


KATIE

Awesome. Alright, well let's jump into our rapid fire round. Angie, do you wanna give us the first question? 


ANGIE 

So when you are not busy working or innovating or producing content, what are your hobbies and interests?


LUCY

Okay, so I'm currently crocheting a blanket for my best friend's, little newborn. Well, she's about to give birth, so I'm really excited. So, yeah, I'm really trying to get into that. It's rubbish, it's finger crocheting, but we, you know, we move. Yeah, my, my, my little niece will like it. 


KATIE

What do you believe to be true?


LUCY

Ooh, that's a very open question. Um, believe to be true that love prevails and kindness will always trump everything. 


ANGIE

So next question. What do you want to see? 


LUCY

I want to see.. Oh gosh, this is such an open question. I think you can take this two ways. I want to see all brands and products not feel the same anymore, and every bottle and every product that I feel…


ANGIE
Yeah. 


LUCY

…just change. And I guess I could go on the see… but I could tell you all of the different things that I miss seeing. But that's another podcast. And it can also become very positive as well.



KATIE

For sure. Oh, what is one thing that people would be surprised to learn about you? 


LUCY

Oh, um. Probably that I'm quite blunt in real life. Maybe. I dunno. Like I'm quite, I just say it how it is. Like my dad's very like that. I'm very, maybe very British like that. Oh yeah. That's great. 


ANGIE

I'm the same. I'm not British, but I definitely do call it what it is. So 


LUCY

Call a fish a fish. 


ANGIE

Yeah.

 

LUCY

I dunno.


ANGIE 

So the next question is… if you were stranded on a deserted island and if there was a piece of technology related to your disability that you can have with you, what would it be?


LUCY

Oh, Just my iPhone. It's just everything is glued to me. It's probably a very generic answer, but I just, I replied to everything. Yes. All of my WhatsApp chats, my team, my business. Uh, yeah, it is just life. (laughter)


ANGIE

Yep. I'm here with you. 


KATIE

Awesome. And then our last question is, if you could have one superpower to help you with your work, what would it be?


LUCY: Oh, to help with my work. I'd love to teleport. I travel so, so much. And imagine if it literally took me a minute to get to New York, like that would be insane. 


KATIE

Awesome. Oh, cool. 


ANGIE

Well, thank you so much for coming onto the podcast and I read your book, Blind Not Broken, and I loved it so, so much. 


LUCY

Thank you. Thank you so much.


ANGIE

And I love what you're doing for inclusivity and universal design and I wish you the best of luck with all that you do, and I hope to talk to you again soon. 


LUCY 

Thank you so much, guys. It's been so lovely chatting to you. I just. You can tell through the airways. We're so like-minded and it's just so lovely to be on your podcast and amazing. Update me with what competition goes and what you guys are doing. 


NARRATOR: Lucy is an RTS award-winning presenter, journalist, content creator, speaker, and disability activist. After losing her sight at 17 due to Incontinentia Pigmenti, Lucy committed to sharing her experiences and raising awareness about disability. Her engaging personality and open commentary have garnered her a social media following of over 2.8 million, with her content being viewed over one billion times. Lucy's influence makes her a leading voice in the global diversity, equity, and inclusion space.


She can be reached on most social media platforms: @LucyEdwards, on Instagram @LucyEdwardsOfficial and her website,LucyEdwards.com.


Innovating Inclusion is produced in association with InVisions, a program of the Fox Family Foundation, whose mission is to break the link between poverty and disability. The goal of InVisions is to teach high school and college students to innovate with universal design in mind, where young entrepreneurs of all abilities create side by side, so as they become the next generation of leaders and hiring managers, any stigma is gone and the world is accessible to everyone. 


Our hosts today were Katie Corbett and Angie Castro with Steven McCoy. Our theme song was written by Alex Kapp, with Incidental Music by Kylie Cooper and Bruce McGinnis. This episode was Co-Produced by Angie Castro.  Our producer is Akira Nakano. Please visit our website, InnovatingInclusion.org.