Ollie Cantos on National Disability Employment Awareness Month (NDEAM) and White Cane Day

Today we speak to West Covina City Councilman Ollie Cantos as we recognize National Disability Employment Awareness Month (NDEAM) and White Cane Day.

Blind since birth and born in Los Angeles to Filipino immigrants, Ollie as a native son of West Covina was raised here since age 4. He defied conventional wisdom of what was then considered possible or practical in light of the relatively limited expectations about persons with disabilities during his formative years. The product of West Covina values — proud, strong, and determined-- he has spent his life, breaking new ground and paving the way for others to follow. 

Ollie is the first blind person and individual with a visible disability ever to be elected to the City Council since West Covina's founding in February 1923.

Early leadership roles include Student Body Vice President at Hollencrest Junior High in Eighth Grade; Junior Class President and Student Body President at Bishop Amat Memorial High School in La Puente; and Student Senator, Speaker of the Senate, Vice President of Student Services, and Executive Vice President and Chairperson of the Student Senate at Loyola Marymount University where he received his Bachelor of Arts degree in Political Science. The year he graduated, he received the Stanley Chan Award, the highest honor to be given by the University's Political Science Department.

After earning his Juris Doctor degree from Loyola Law School Los Angeles and becoming an attorney, he served as Staff Attorney and Director of Outreach and Education at the Disability Rights Legal Center, General Counsel and Director of Programs for the then 70,000-member American Association of People with Disabilities, Special Assistant and later Special Counsel to the Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights at the U.S. Department of Justice, Associate Director for Domestic Policy at the White House under President George W. Bush, and now Special Assistant to the Assistant Secretary for Civil Rights at the U.S. Department of Education. He has also received presidential appointments from two different Presidents of the United States. His work at the Federal Government level has spanned across both Republican and Democratic administrations since 2004.

In addition to his ongoing Federal Government responsibilities, Ollie is Attorney Mentor with the American Bar Association's Commission on Disability Rights, Member of the Kiwanis Club of West Covina, and Chairman of the Board at RespectAbility, a multi-million-dollar national nonpartisan non-profit cross-disability organization that fights stigmas and advances opportunities on behalf of this nation's more than 61 million Americans with disabilities.

Prior leadership posts include Member and Vice Chair of the President’s Committee for People with Intellectual Disabilities,  Legal Officer for the United States Coast Guard Auxiliary, Vice President of the Legal Aid Foundation of Los Angeles, Member of the Board of Directors of the Loyola Marymount University National Alumni Association, and Member of the Board of Governors of the Loyola Law School Alumni Association.  Among others, he was also on the boards of the ENDependence Center  of Northern Virginia and Community Lodgings.

But Ollie is most grateful for his adoption of three blind triplet boys – Leo, Nick, and Steven.  Their compelling story has been told by National Public Radio, PEOPLE Magazine, The Washingtonian Magazine, USA Today, and videos that went viral on

www.innovatinginclusion.org

Transcript

Catchy Intro Music Starts

AKIRA NAKANO

Welcome to Innovating Inclusion, Everyone. Today, we begin our series of interviews celebrating National Disabilities Employment Awareness Month, NDEAM. Our host Dennis Tran talks to current West Covina City Councilman, Ollie Cantos.

Blind since birth and born in Los Angeles to Filipino immigrants, Ollie defied conventional wisdom of what was then considered possible or practical in light of the relatively limited expectations about persons with disabilities during his formative years. 

Among his many positions, Ollie served as the Special Counsel to the Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights at the U.S. Department of Justice, Associate Director for Domestic Policy at the White House under President George W. Bush, and now Special Assistant to the Assistant Secretary for Civil Rights at the U.S. Department of Education. 

He has also received presidential appointments from two different Presidents of the United States. His work at the Federal Government level has spanned across both Republican and Democratic administrations since 2004. 

Enjoy today’s amazing episode. We are lucky to have him.

DENNIS TRAN

Ollie, welcome. 

Music fades.

OLLIE CANTOS

Thank you. 

DENNIS

I first got to know you during your tenure as Board Chairman of Respectability, now Disability belongs. So Ollie, this podcast is called Innovating Inclusion. What does innovating inclusion mean to you, especially given your journey across government advocacy and community leadership? 

OLLIE

I love the name of the podcast, Innovating Inclusion because it's just perfect.

It's a call to action and a description of who we are when it comes to inclusion. It calls for creativity… social entrepreneurialism. It calls for each of us to bring out the best in ourselves, to advance the ideal of everyone having the opportunity to succeed or fail on their own merit. It is an awesome philosophy and a great approach.

So what I love about that is that we keep innovating to make inclusion happen in every context. We keep learning from our mistakes and doing better. We keep expanding best practices to optimize good in the world. That's what it means to me, and I just love that. And I really appreciate you, Dennis, for inviting me to your podcast because together we're just going to make things better and better.

DENNIS

You've always been a champion for authentic disability representation and equity and employment union and leadership, and you continue that work in powerful ways at the local level now serving on the City Council in West Covina, always grounded in community experience and visibility. How has your identity as a blind leader shaped the way you approach leadership, service, and visibility?

OLLIE

Thanks, Dennis for the question. It really is ultimately a matter of philosophy when it comes to us as people with disabilities. Because as we both know, that it used to be a time when we were subjected to really low expectations, where the goal of people around us was to basically… take care of us from cradle to grave.

And what ended up happening, of course, is the disability rights movement rose from the ranks of people with disabilities ourselves, where we decided to have high expectations of ourselves and also to strive hard to open every door of opportunity. So that whole sense of philosophy within the cross disability movement is what has impacted every part of my life.

Now, not only as an elected official, but also as a member of the disability community and active on our different issues because when it comes to disability, it's just a part of who we are. It doesn't represent all of who we are, but it's not anything to be ashamed of either. It's okay to say “disability”.

It's also important for our sense of authenticity to be proud of all characteristics that we have because that's what makes us not only unique, but it also positions us well as members of the community to give to others, including on issues that have nothing to do with disability. So it's just important for all of us to recognize how disability, when put in the proper context, it's just one of those things. Not really a big deal, but at the same time for us to recognize that if we have different needs or whatever, we strive to get those needs met. And we also want to give to the community like everybody else. So that's basically what governs how I do things. 

DENNIS

There's been an increased recognition of intersectionality within the disability space, such as race and income mobility, gender, sexual [sic] orientation, and that plays a role on whether one would be willing to embrace their disability or not, and how it can affect their career and employability. Disability is not a one size fits all, and we're not a monolith. I think there's a perception that disability looks the same or the same for other people, but we're not. And everyone's experiences are very unique and different based on our own upbringing and intersectional identities. How should we ensure that this movement stays inclusive and is grounded in justice for everyone? 

OLLIE

Yes. You're really right to point out that we in the disability community are not a monolith. We have intersectional identities. We have our individual life experiences. We have things that have happened to us that are absolutely horrible. We have things happen to us that are amazing. We are each a whole bundle of a ton of stuff. So when it comes to looking to the future and understanding the importance of fighting for justice, justice occurs when we all have an equal opportunity to be successful, to be free of any biases that hold us back by decision makers who hold in their hands, their ability to give us or deny us opportunity. It's all a matter of our seeing on an assets based model, how they actually have a vested interest in looking at us in that way, and how we ourselves have a vested interest in striving for the best. So justice is created. 

When all of these intersecting efforts come together and we need to keep fighting for that justice, we need to keep battling across party line, across every type of characteristic that you could think of to make life better. And the way that we do that is to take an honest look at who we are, what we believe, what are our limited expectations that we should make better? Who are the ones who should mentor us, who we haven't yet gotten to be mentored by Who do we mentor and how do we dedicate every day to improving just a little bit. If we just improve a little bit in all those areas every day, then we will arrive at a more just world, that's for sure. 

DENNIS

What were some of the most formative experiences that led you to not only embrace your disability pride, but also become a fierce advocate for others, particularly blind and low vision individuals? I know you weren't always proud of it. 

OLLIE

No, I wasn't. And you're right, it shows your homework. What happened in the earlier years was that I literally was ashamed to be blind. I didn't even say the word blind. I would say, well, I'm harder seeing. I don't see that well or whatever. I would really, really downplay it. That's because that's what my parents taught me to do, and that's because they were encouraged to do that with me by professionals in the field as well as doctors and whomever else. So if you were to originally ask me about this disability thing, I'm like, ah, you know, I don't wanna use a cane. I don't wanna say blind. I don't want people to feel sorry for me. Nobody wants that. And so I rationalized by saying, well, I'm just gonna hide it. 'cause if I hide it, then people won't really know. And on top of that, I don't wanna be different anyway. That was my original way of thinking. So if ever anybody said, Hey, that guy's blind, I'd be really ticked. I'd be like, don't you dare call me blind. How offensive. Why would you say that? I see at like 10%. That's why I didn't use a cane for the longest time. 'cause I didn't wanna be identified as blind. Even though I still got into accidents, I bumped into stuff, I fell about a couple steps. I just had these issues that would not have been necessary to have happened if I just learned how to use a cane in the first place.

And once I realized that a cane is not a sign of pity. It's a source of independence and it's a source of pride. And when I realized later in life that it is respectable to be blind, that's what changed everything. Suddenly because of people who had mentored me along the way, they said, “Hey, why does blindness even matter?

It's not that big of a deal. You don't have to be ashamed of it. Just be who you are.” And that's what really changed my way of thinking when it comes to this stuff, especially when looking at how I could have continued just to hide it. 

Then when they said, “Okay, well tell me Ollie about when you were growing up.” 

And I said, “well, what do you mean?” 

And they said, well, her name was Sharon Gold, who told me that. She said, “Well, you said you were bullied when you were growing up, right?” 

I said, “Yeah.” 

And she said, “So when they bullied you, what were the issues?” 

And then I told Sharon, “Well, they bullied me because I'm different and because they could see and I can't… And I hated being made fun of because of not being able to see.” 

So she said, “Okay, you're saying that you didn't want to be thought of as different, and you want it to be like everybody else, but by your choosing to hide being blind, aren't you doing the very same thing that the bullies did to you by downplaying a part of who you are and by basically sending a message that you're not proud of who you are?  Isn't that a horrible message to send to the community as well as to yourself? “

And I, oh. You know, like I didn't think of it that way. And so that's what made me stop to just think about my life differently. And once I realized that my efforts to try to downplay my disability were actually misplaced. I have since spent the subsequent 35 years of my life telling everybody who would be willing to listen, that includes kids as well as adults, to the fact that we need to be proud of who we are. There's nothing shameful about any disability that any of us has. It's part of our own spirit of authenticity. Plus, we as who we are, have a lot to give, so we don't have to apologize for any of this. What we just need to recognize is that, yeah, we have a disability, but we are just as mean or nice as anybody else, lazy or ambitious as anyone else, whatever is anybody else. So when we see that. Then the next step is for us to take that philosophy and give to the world and grow in the world like anybody else would. So frequently people would look at us as being the recipients of service, whatever that service is, help them, help them, that kind of thing. But we also can be the givers of service, and that's what I encourage all of us to do as fellow members of the disability community, to find ways to give. Not just within the disability community, but anything that you're passionate about to the world and show your talent and ability and let all of that shine and come through.

Jazz Music Short Interlude

DENNIS

That's amazing that you have been able to find your community support system through mentors and others who have helped you embrace yourself. 

I know you're a Filipino American. Traditionally in a lot of Asian cultures, disability and mental health topics are usually stigmatized or even shameful. That you experience barriers that made it harder for you to embrace it early on. 

OLLIE

You're absolutely right. There is an intersectional component of all this because being a Filipino by background, people wanted me to hide having a disability, and it was sort of a thing that you just don't talk about and it is stigmatizing. And some people even think that if a person has a disability, that it is somehow a mark of shame on the family. Like, oh, the family must have done something to cause this. Or if we spend time around them or we're too close to them, we could catch it. I mean, depending on what the disability is. And so that whole stigma is real.

And there are communities across the world right now who are still subjected to that and who, because of different backgrounds of what cultures have thought about disability, they really end up doing a disservice to people with disabilities. Because when people without disabilities think lowly of us, that affects our opportunities.

And then when we internalize those things and we think lowly of ourselves. We don't do that much compared to others. 

Then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy because then they say, “Hey, we don't really expect that much out of you.” 

Then we say, “Oh, well we don't expect much out of ourselves then.” Then when we don't do anything, we don't have accomplishments that are just as high.

Then they say, “See, you're really not doing as much.” 

That it's just like a cycle that repeats over and over again. And we have gotta break that cycle, including as fellow people of color, where it's not a cultural issue in that sense, where we have got to be the instigators of societal change within every culture.

By recognizing that any types of beliefs that seek to stereotype us or to ostracize us or to stigmatize us, those all need to be challenged and destroyed. Because if we don't seek to destroy them, nobody else will. We have to do it. And in a spirit of self-determination, we have got to continue organizing in the disability community to speak for ourselves and to demand change and then to act accordingly so that society can be made better.

DENNIS

Yes, it's very important to disrupt the pattern and system and create change around the way we relate to disability, not just from a place of deficit, but also from the lived [sic] human experiences. What is your advice for parents of people of color or people living with disabilities? How will you advise them on best practices on how to go about embracing their experiences with disability?

OLLIE

Well, one of the first things that parents should do is to look to role models who possess disabilities similar to their kids, and also to identify organizations of parents who have high expectations of their kids. And there's also something else that's really a source of difficulty within this. Parents can actually, without realizing it or intending to, can actually be the ones that hold their own kids back where they say, “Well, I need to protect them. I don't want them to be hurt without me. They won't be able to function” All that kind of stuff. So parents need to also think about not just when their kids are little, but also as they grow up. There needs to be an effort to facilitate as much independence as possible because there will come the day, circle of life kind of thing, when parents will no longer be able to care for their kids when those kids become adults or when the parents grow older and they are no longer able physically to do what they used to do. So if they don't put into place the right plan to think of the future, then it could be pretty catastrophic if ever, or whenever they grow older and are not able to take care of their kids who become adults. 

So sometimes parents say, “Well, I'm planning for that. I'm going to find someone to take care of them.” 

Well, that's one way to do it. But what about the other way of saying, “Hey, I'm going to show my kid or kids to be as independent and confident as possible, disability or not. And I want my kid or kids to optimize their ability, not only to take care of themselves, but to thrive and to just live every aspect of life with fullness and not to be held back.”

And there's also a lot to be said about resilience because sometimes people who are parents or guardians, they're afraid to see their kids fail or they feel like everybody should get a trophy. We really need to move away from that kind of thinking because we all become stronger through our resiliency whenever we fall and whenever we struggle. 

The very process of learning how to get back up and go for it again, that in and of itself is a character building exercise, and if kids don't learn how to fail properly. Or if they're so used to things being handed to them, then they're not going to have the resilience that's necessary when hardships occur. If we can learn resilience better and we also make sure consciously to eliminate any sense of entitlement, then those things are really, really important because otherwise, those kids, when they grow up, they're going to end up being more dependent on people. And they're going to also be sacrificing the potential that they otherwise could reach had they been raised differently or had they learned to think differently.

DENNIS

There's this conversation around over reliance and having things handed to you. I think it should be about finding that balance between: yes, there'll be hardship, and yes, there are things you need to go through, you need to learn and you do. But there are also things that are out of my control that I may need accommodation. It's finding that right balance between independence and where to lean onto for community support. 

OLLIE

Yeah, absolutely, Dennis. Exactly. We really need to focus on this, and this is a tough thing for some people to hear, but I'm here to say it. Having been through the whole process, I know what it's like to have limited expectations and to be honest, when my mom, when I was really little and she demanded that I do the chores, I didn't wanna do the chores. I wanted to just go out and play, or I wanted to watch TV. I did not want to do what she told me to do, and I wanted to use my not being able to see well. So I'm like, well, mom, I can't see. Without hesitating, she said, “Then use your hands, feel where the dirt is and clean it that way.” She just cut me no slack. And I thought at the time, to be really honest with you, Dennis, she was a meanest mom of the whole doggone wide world. But of course in a Filipino family, we can't say things, but I thought those things I tried, but she would have none of it.

And she said, “Nope. You have to do things I expect you to do as well as everybody else.” 

So what I've since learned now as an adult, and I also tell this to thousands of people whenever I speak across the country, is all we can't do is insert whatever the disability stops. Like say, for example, in my case, I'm blind, so all I can't do is see, that's it. That's all. I can't do. I can't see, doesn't mean I can't work. It doesn't mean I can't give to the community. It doesn't mean I can't earn a lot of money. It doesn't mean I can't serve in elected office. We don't equate the characteristic of disability with other aspects of life and being successful. We may do things differently compared to other people, but who doesn't do things differently? There's some people who learn differently, walk differently, talk differently, interpret information differently. Whatever they are, whatever they do. Part of our authenticity is in recognizing that our disability is just one of those things, and that does not mean that we don't have challenges we do.

Let's say, for example, there's a friend who's in a wheelchair. If there's something on some bookshelf and the highest shelf is five feet high and they can't reach that high, well, you know what? We as blind people, we can help them when they say, okay, reach up to your right, and then, oh, it's right there. Go further. Right there. Can you grab that for me please? 

A lot of people don't like to drive. They take Uber, whether they have a disability or not. Some people don't like to read using vision, so they listen to a book or whatever. The only thing that binds us all is that we're all different. Our difference is what unites us actually.

DENNIS: Yeah, I totally agree. Society sometimes create a barrier that prevents people from being different and forces system to conform. An example is a school system. As someone who has navigated both federal and local levels of government, how has your understanding of disability inclusion evolved? 

OLLIE: Oh, it evolved in a lot of ways and, and one thing that it evolved is understanding of the real meaning of authenticity.

It's almost controversial with what I'm about to say, but I'm gonna say it anyway. We all hear these days, especially these days, about how we need to step into our power and be our true, authentic selves. You've heard it. I'm sure you've heard it, but here's the kicker with that. If we as people with disabilities have low expectations, that's not authentically who we truly can be. It's not who we truly are. 

Let's say for example, there's somebody who's blind. I mean, I should use my own disability. If I truly believe that I as a blind person cannot be successful, that is not authentic to who we truly are. It's not authentic. Because our default baseline is that we can do whatever we set our minds to.

If we put the right systems into place, if we persist enough, if we have the right mindset set, if we take enough action, those are all important factors that ultimately determine what we are and what we can be. So if people authentically think that they can't do something, to the extent that it causes disempowering beliefs, that's not who we authentically are. So we just have to be careful because I used to rationalize that I couldn't rise to higher levels. I'm like, well, of course everybody can do something. But I didn't think I could be that successful because, I mean, I do have a disability after all, so I have to be quote, realistic. That is a really dangerous word where we talk about realistic.

So I always ask people when they say, “Hey, be realistic.” 

I'd say, “Well, compared to what?” 

“Oh, well, no one has ever done X.” 

“Well, so if no one else has done it before, does that mean it can't be done by us?” 

Like Eric Meyer, he's a blind guy. So if they were to say, well, a blind guy can make it to the top of Mount Everest, the highest mountain peak in the entire world on this planet, they could say, “Well be realistic. A blind person can never do that.” 

Eric proved that it's possible and he's been told it by his whole life. So realistic based on what series of expectations we all have to push the envelope as to what realistic is, and if we are somehow told or taught. Being realistic means that we have to get our dreams back. Then I challenge all of us, including myself, to look at that and say, “Hmm, realistic, according to what, and if I feel like there are limits, then are there other people who can help me get around those limits to really expand my horizons a lot more broadly.” 

But when we keep pushing the envelope and we commit to this Japanese concept called “Kaizen”, which is basically constant and never ending improvement. When we improve every day, when we improve ourselves, our outlook as well as our actions, and we learn from our mistakes, that is how we ultimately reach our true level of authenticity. 

Jazz music. Short interlude.

DENNIS

Olliei, how do you see the current employment landscape for people with disabilities? Are we moving forward or are we moving backwards? 

OLLIE

Within the current climate of employment of people with disabilities, there are setbacks in some ways, and there are advancements in other ways. The setbacks include the prevailing misconceptions that still exist about people with all types of disabilities by people without disabilities who've never interacted with us before, or who otherwise don't know that they have interacted with members of our disability community. People might say, “I don't know anyone who's disabled.” Well, they don't know that because they don't realize that there are many disabilities. 90% of all disabilities are not visible to the naked eye. So how do they know that? They never interacted with people with disabilities. But for people with visible disabilities, there still exists the barrier that people have attitudinally with regard to what they believe we can do and can't do. And so when that barrier exists, that's still a problem. The other thing that's a barrier within the context of employment is we ourselves need to do better at being prepared for the workplace. We have to optimize our own job readiness. We have got to secure the help and assistance that we need. We've got to refine our own soft skills, and we also, once we get a job, we have to have high career aspirations of what it is that we want to do, not letting us limit ourselves based on those limited beliefs. Plus there are also policy barriers that exist.

There are a lot of people who don't realize who try to work for the federal government that there is a thing called a Schedule A Hiring Authority, which is the ability of the federal government to bring… onboard qualified people with disabilities non-competitively. So if there's a person who is qualified for a job. I mean really, that they're really qualified, they can do the job. Then the federal government has the ability to hire them. A lot of people don't necessarily know about how to get a Schedule A letter, or a lot of employers who may not necessarily know in a federal setting how to recruit qualified people with disabilities. That can be a barrier too.

Also within the private sector, there are people who don't realize what an amazing pool of untapped talent is available right within the disability community. If only they look in our direction. Some employers don't recognize that accommodations really don't cost that much, and they don't recognize that we actually have a higher retention rate as a disability community statistically. So whenever the private sector hires us in terms of the business case, it is to their advantage to hire us. They shouldn't hire us because of motivations relating to charity. Instead, they should hire us because we're good at what we do because we work hard just like anybody else. So in other words, when they realize how they can tap into our community, it's better for them as well as for us.

DENNIS

What's your solution or suggestion for making more businesses aware of the things you stated about hiring people with disabilities? 

OLLIE

So when it comes to taking these different principles and actually operationalize these in our daily lives, the thing that's really important is for there to be efforts by the vocational rehabilitation system to reach out to employers and to show employers these benefits from a business case.

The other thing that's important, too, is for people who are part of vocational rehabilitation, who are clients, customers, our consumers, to be ready so that when an employer comes along that they will not only have high beliefs in their own ability, but that they also are dedicated and committed to doing the best job possible.

It has to be a marrying of both of those elements. 

Another important thing to do is for businesses to ally themselves with organizations or businesses that prioritize hiring qualified people with disabilities. In other words, peer to peer, they should learn from one another. And a book that I've written that might be in a show notes somewhere will have the information as to what those business organizations are. And that's yet another opportunity for them to operationalize, really putting all of this into practice. 

DENNIS

So how can public leaders and local government create a pathway for equal employment for disabled people? 

OLLIE

I wanted to address this in two ways. Within the disability community, we have unconscious bias, and I hear it a lot. I hear it when people say, “Well, I'd like to work, but I'm really afraid of losing my benefits.” If they knew the ways to leverage existing public policy, not only could they end up working and making more money, but they could actually keep the benefits that they need as well, and ween themselves off the benefits. And I can literally show people mathematically in their own situation how if they actually want to work, they could make money and live a better life as opposed to staying on government benefits without even trying to work. That's one unconscious bias that exists. 

Another is when it comes to what they believe that we can do, and that's why if businesses take the time to get to know the VR system, they can ally themselves with the business organizations I told you about, to have internship opportunities available to them. And whenever people have internships, there are new programs or ongoing programs that already exist where if they were to agree to take on one or more interns. The hours for that person would actually be paid by a public agency or through a grant or whatever, depending on whatever the program is that they're working under. So then basically they get to see directly what people with disabilities can do. And then if they like what they see and they're really happy with the results the person produces, they should hire them. Oh, and by the way, if they end up being hired and they're a private business and they make modifications, they can actually deduct the cost of accommodations off their taxes.

It's just so many great public policy reasons and supports that are available. People don't realize they exist, but it has to be combining a knowledge of public policy with the personal commitment to do better for everybody, for employers to be willing to bring aboard, and for us to be ready to take on those jobs and to rise and to be successful with the proper accommodations so that way we can be just as successful as everybody else.

DENNIS

What are the qualities you believe we need to cultivate in the next generation of advocates and professionals?

OLLIE

Dennis, you're actually a good example of that. I mean, I have worked with you as an emerging leader, and the thing that is important for the next generation is first to learn our history. They've gotta learn the struggle of what it took to secure the rights that they basically get to take for granted now.

Every US citizen has the right to vote, but a lot of people with disabilities didn't realize that there was once a point when polling places were not accessible or where the technology associated with voting was not accessible, but now has significantly changed. There are still issues there in different individual circumstances, but accessibility is far better now because there are our forebearers who made it possible to make that happen. So younger leaders need to start off by learning our history. Learning the biographies of forebearers of ours, and then based on their understanding of the biographies they read, to look at those individual approaches to success. 

Another thing that is important for the next generation to do is to identify people who can mentor them now, who are in positions that they themselves want to be in someday. That could involve people with disabilities who are leaders and disability rights organizations. It can involve people with disabilities who are not involved in the disability rights movement, but who also nevertheless have a positive impact in whatever their field is, whatever that may happen to be.

And another thing is new and emerging leaders need to organize by being involved with other leaders so that as the rising generation prepares to take the place of those of us who are older, then that's how we also get to build that continuity. 

And the fourth thing is the importance of being teachable. Coachability is extraordinarily important, especially when people are younger. Our tendency has been, I remember from when I was younger, thinking that I'm absolutely invincible and that I pretty much know everything. If they recognize that there is always more to learn. Then that also goes a long way, especially if they're willing to put those lessons into practice. I myself, I just turned 55 and I still have mentors who I go to who tell me, Hey, here's how you can do things better. Here's what you're doing great, et cetera. And then as I continue to be stronger because of my mentors, I am committed to. Spreading that into passing that along to future generations. 

DENNIS

Yeah, that's great advice. What is your take on the current landscape of businesses being performative with inclusion? Although they may want to hire people with disabilities, they don't actually create a safe space for them afterward. And it feels like people with disabilities feel unsupported. 

OLLIE

Exactly. 

DENNIS

So how can you hold organizations or businesses and leaders accountable when it comes to inclusion?

The second part of the question is for people with disabilities who can't get employed by traditional businesses or find government jobs, where are there resources to support them becoming entrepreneurs? Because there's always the idea that they're forced into becoming entrepreneurs because they have no choice, because the system and everything else around them prevents them from doing their best. 

OLLIE

Well, there's a lot to be said about entrepreneurship, but entrepreneurship shouldn't just be, well, I can't get a job, so I'm gonna just work for myself. Entrepreneurship in and of itself, even as a matter of choice, is a real, real untapped strategy for creating economic empowerment. 

So like in my case, I'm entrepreneurial. I have like six income streams. But that's because I work in different capacities and then to whatever extent I can find ways to increase my income by finding other things to do from within a business context, I do that. And they're not necessarily high amounts of money, but when you add things here, add things there, it really helps. Like I am a real estate investor. I also have a home-based business. I also do speaking, I do consultancy and plus I'm a member of our City Council here in the City of West Covina. And I have a job with the federal government. And so when looking at economic empowerment, there is not just any one way you can still work for somebody else and be an entrepreneur or you could choose just to work for somebody else. But the fact is that there is a lot of opportunity. Sometimes we blaze our own trail. Other times we look at what currently exists. 

And the other thing that's important here is to look at things, not just within the context of tackling barriers, but actually by changing that paradigm, by asking the question, how am I going to be successful at X? Whatever it is. So begin with the end goal in mind with whatever that career goal is, and to ask “how” questions as opposed to “why” questions. “Why” questions are a little bit tougher, because we don't honestly always know the answer, but whenever we ask the kind of questions that are specifically designed to having the answers emerge from within us, then all the better.

When it comes to our daily strategy, we need to make sure that we have a proactive approach and not to see the world necessarily as being filled with barriers, but instead filled with opportunity. And ultimately we get what we expect. It doesn't mean that we're not going to have adversity. It doesn't mean that people are all going to see us for who we are and what we have to contribute to the workplace or to the marketplace. But what it does mean is that when we do have the kind of positive mindset. That has a spirit of entrepreneurialism combined with that spirit of being a trailblazer and a go-getter. It gets us a lot farther in life by being creative and by finding ways to do things. 'cause then that way we're happier every day.

We all learn to keep increasing our happiness now in spite of whatever our circumstances are. That is what puts us in the best mindset position to see opportunities, to take specific action, to follow through our commitments, not to fail to lose sight of what we want, and not to rationalize away any dreams that we have.

DENNIS

That's the importance of investing in oneself. And you don't have to prove your work because you can't really change people around you. Lots of businesses may not be inclusive and you can't really change that. They either want to invest in people or they don't. So create your own path forward. 

OLLIE

And you know, ironically though, by following the mindset that I suggested.

We actually do facilitate changes in those things because people who may not have been open to us before, when we have that mindset that they might say, “Well, I don't really know what they can do, but I really like this person. Wow. Let's see. Let's give it a shot.”

 Or let's say there's a business that affirmatively hires people with disabilities and then they teach other businesses, “Hey, do you realize what a value this is here?”

Or when there's a whole element of peer support where if businesses were to, to say, “Hey, we're going to have an affinity group. At the workplace that encourages people to come together to exchange their own thoughts and ideas, and to be a support system and to find ways to contribute to our company.” 

Having affinity groups is awesome because it really also creates a more inclusive workplace and inclusion, by the way, diversity, equity, inclusion, it's not a matter of facilitating something that causes discrimination. The whole effort to promote diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility. Is geared toward creating a level playing field by making sure that people have an equal opportunity to succeed or fail by pushing for equality of opportunity, not equality of results. We're all very, very different individuals, and when the workplace is infused with our talent and ability for who we are, then that is how the world benefits that way. It's just so much. Better to look at the world in terms of the richness and wealth of all that there is. 'cause gosh knows there's so much.

DENNIS

Yeah, absolutely. October is also White Cane Awareness Month, and so it's an important opportunity to highlight independence and mobility for blind and low vision communities. What does the white cane symbolize to you both personally and professionally? 

OLLIE

I love it that you brought up White Cane Awareness Month, because originally the white cane was just not only a mobility device, but the original leaders in the disability rights world within the blindness system, they called it White Cane Safety Day at the time, and that was to promote how people, when they use their white cane, that we can make our way through the world, but also to look out for us.

So that was sort of how it was before. But now. The white cane is a wonderful source of independence, and it does not promote pity. What promotes pity is if we have an attitude that elicits that, and that's how we can take things to a whole new level, because if others aren't going to be proud of us, or we rely on people that has limited utility in comparison to when we decide ourselves how high we're going to rise, nobody's gonna stop us from going to the very top if that's where we wanna go.

And when we have that attitude and we have it within the framework of positive expectancy, then that's really what helps. 

So I'm really excited about October. The other thing about October is it's National Disability Employment Awareness Month. So it isn't just geared toward creating greater awareness about disability generally.

The whole month is actually geared toward focusing on employment and economic opportunity and self-sufficiency. These days, it's just tough. The vast majority of people with disabilities ages 18 through 64 are still not working who want to work, and that's why we have to continue doing things like this, like spreading the word with this podcast and sharing concrete information and resources to keeping at all of this. And by making sure that we are the ones individually who are to decide our own level of success. 

DENNIS

How can allies best support the disability community during NDEAM?

OLLIE

Allies can best support people with disabilities during National Disability Employment Awareness Month by asking honest questions and putting on the table whatever extent that they don't know what they don't know. Because a lot of the time in this world, a lot of people are afraid to ask questions because of being offensive. That's why it's important for each of us to continue to spread the narrative that there's nothing offensive to having a disability, and there's nothing offensive to asking about disability. It's not offensive. Why would we be offended when there's nothing wrong with having a disability? So our allies should ask questions of us. Should ask questions of disability organizations that know fully well about what our capabilities are, and should also encourage employers in the government, nonprofit, and private sector to give us a chance as they work to give us a chance.

Then on top of that, when we ourselves are proactive at looking for those opportunities, when those things marry, that's where we can really achieve some really amazing results. Whatever statistics that we see, or whatever numbers that we can provide our psyche, none of those really matter when it comes to ultimately, how do we ourselves move forward? We are the one that matters. The only number that matters is one, us. Us as individual ones. What are we going to do to make our lives better? How are we going to inspire fellow people with disabilities to be at their best? What do we do to teach people what we know? How do we bring people up behind us who are traveling the path that we once traveled?

We also recognize the wisdom that we can share with others as we continue to learn from people who mentor us. That's how we just keep this whole thing going, and we keep getting better and better every day. 

DENNIS

Looking ahead, what's your vision for the future of the disability community, particularly when it comes to representation, access in leadership. 

OLLIE

When I think about the future when it comes to people with disabilities, I'm really, really excited because the fact is that we have so many opportunities that are available to us every day in everything in the private sector, in the nonprofit sector, and in the government sector.

Never has there been a better time to take control of our lives to do better. With all the challenges that we have, we also have a lot of opportunities. So my vision is that we embrace a positive vision of what we wanna do ahead… where our community is fully employed, where educational opportunities are not denied to anyone where accommodations are provided in the workplace, as a matter of course, and not as the exception to the rule because of believing in an asset-based model that we each have something to contribute. And by never apologizing for having a disability, that's the biggest thing. 

Emotional piano music begins.

Why should we apologize for what? For be who we are? Heck no. When this movement of ours continues to grow, when we cultivate people from rising generations to be involved, to battle through adversity, to triumph over adversity, to send a message to the world that not only are we here, and not only do we strive for greater integration, but we are here to stay. Then that's how we can actually build the kind of world where the history that we have known in the past will be things of the past where we actually will be seen not as people who need help all the time or that kind of old approach, but people who are individuals of value, who deserve to make a lot of money if we want to, to be impactful in the nonprofit checker, if we want to, to be elected to the highest offices. If we want to just insert the blank. If we can make our way to that world, and if we each do our part to making that happen, that's how we make the movement better, and that's how we create permanent sustainability of the strength of the cross disability rights movement that brings together people of every political persuasion. Driven by the philosophy that we as people with disabilities truly are deserving of every right and privilege just like everybody else. 

Piano music ends.

DENNIS

Thank you Ollie, for your time and being here to share your wisdom with the community. 

OLLIE: Thank you. Really appreciate it.

Upbeat closing theme starts.

NARRATOR

Innovating Inclusion is a production of the Fox Family Foundation whose mission is to break the link between poverty and disability. Ollie’s book, People with Disabilities at Work can be found on the Disability Belongs website. A link is posted in the chat.

Our theme song today was written by Girgore Ionut Cosmin, with incidental music by Travis A. King and Bruce Maginnis.  Today’s episode was produced by Akira Nakano.

Please visit our website, innovatinginclusion.org.